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At Last! Common Sense Prevails

I don't normally comment on non-technical issues in this Blog, but this week I feel impelled to do so to mark the ruling against the forced teaching of “Intelligent Design“ to school children on the pretext that it is not a religious view, but has some actual scientific basis. Although I am not an especially  religious person and follow no particular faith's teachings entirely, I have always respected (and to some degree, even envied) those who do have complete faith. I fully support their right to express that faith as long as they do not interfere with the rights of others whose views differ.

However, I have no time whatever for proponents of Intelligent Design  (or any other pseudo-scientific nonsense) when they try to advance their faith-based notions as if they were something more than simply statements of that faith. I was, therefore, both relieved, and delighted, to see the report of the case of the Dover School Board in Pennsylvania where it was decided that:

Teaching "intelligent design" to high school biology students violates laws prohibiting the endorsement of religion in public schools, a federal judge ruled Tuesday. The ruling in Pennsylvania is a major defeat for proponents of the controversial alternative theory about the origins of life.

The argument that one hears most often from the supporters of “Intelligent Design” is that: "Darwin's Theory is ONLY a theory" implying that this means that it is somehow lacking. Sure enough, this argument was,. once more, trotted out in this particular case.

The following statement was advanced by the defenders of ID:

"Because Darwin's theory is a theory, it continues to be tested as new evidence is discovered. The theory is not a fact. Gaps in the theory exist for which there is no evidence. A theory is defined as a well-tested explanation that unifies a broad range of observations."

 

However, not only is the statement incorrect in its definition of a Theory, it also shows is that they do not even understand the rules of Science, which define the four distinct levels at which ideas exist as follows:

  • LAW: A proposition that explains and predicts behavior within defined limits under all known circumstances (e.g. First Law of Thermodynamics)
  • THEOREM:  A proposition that is not self-evident but which can be proven by a chain of reasoning based on established facts or that can be demonstrated by observed phenomenon (e.g. Theory of General Relativity)
  • HYPOTHESIS: A proposition made as a basis for reasoning without necessarily being based on established facts (i.e. an assumption)
  • CONJECTURE: An opinion formed on the basis of incomplete information

The key differentiation here is the factual basis of the proposition and its applicability. Viewed in this light "Intelligent Design" falls, even with the most generous interpretation, into the last category! It is a Conjecture (or, in plainer terms, a guess!) and as such cannot possibly be afforded the same status as a Theory. Note that this has nothing whatever to do with the content or merits of "Intelligent Design" as a proposition, it merely reflects the basis on which the idea is advanced. Would the proponents of Intelligent Design demand that equal prominence be given to the proposition that:

We have no incontrovertible proof of the existence of a benign higher intelligence. If such an intelligence existed, and were benign then surely we would have such proof. The only reason for a higher intelligence to exist, but to conceal its presence from us, is that it is indifferent to us, if not actually hostile.

After all, this is just as valid a conjecture as that which underpins "Intelligent Design"...

 

Of course, I realize that this will not end the matter! The proponents of ID will go on trying to force their nonsense down the throats of children (and adults) and will continue to waste the time of Judges and our Courts trying to obtain legal sanction for views that have no merit or basis - other than faith.

How much have these people cost us taxpayers to date?

 

By AK: Added Later on 12/21:

Please do not use feedback on my Weblog to advance the cause of either Evolution, or Intelligent Design - I will delete all such atttempts to do so. I have already had to delete several responses to this article which are, in my opinion, totally inappropriate to this discussion.

As I stated above, this has NOTHING to do with the content, or relative merits of, either “Intelligent Design“, or “Evolution“. I am concerned only with the basis on which the propositions are founded. All I am saying here is that whether we like it or not, there is a difference, in scientific significance, between a THEORY (which has a basis in demonstrable fact) and a CONJECTURE (which doesn't). 

I am applauding the defeat (so far) of the attempt to use the legal system to force acceptance that Intelligent Design is, in some way, comparable to Evolution despite the fact that it is Conjecture, while Evolution is unquestionably a Theorem.

I am perfectly happy to discuss the issues I have raised here, but NOT the merits (or otherwise) of either Evolution or Intelligent Design 

Published Wednesday, December 21, 2005 1:35 PM by andykr

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# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:04 PM by Brian Vander Plaats
What about the forced teaching of Evolution to school children on the pretext that it is not a religious view? The problem is that you can't talk about where we came from without a specific religious view. Is there are God, or isn't there? Are there many gods? Is God a person like us, or is he/she some abstract being? Whatever your beliefs are, they will influence how you personally answer "where did we come from?"

The Theory of Evolution is simply one answer to this question. If you believe this theory and are a sane person, you have to come to the conclusion that there is no God. The fact that there is a great deal of fascinating evidence (both real and fake) that supports this theory does not matter so much as what it's really getting at. This theory is asking a religious question and giving a religious answer. And obviously Intelligent Design is too.

So if public schools require children to learn that Evolution is a scientifict fact, we have a situation where the goverment is endorsing a particular religious viewpoint.

If I send my children to public school, I want them to be taught all of the main views on origins. I find Evolution to be completely false and it is the most extreme form of arrogance that humans have ever exhibited towards their maker. Yet I would be angered to find that my children were not taught about this important historical movement. And on the other side, how can a reasonable person who believes in Evolution want to censor a widely popular belief that we were created by a divine being? Are they afraid that their children will be duped into believing something that they believe to be false? What really is the problem here?

Brian Vander Plaats

# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:14 PM by andykr@tightlinecomputers.com
As I said, I have no comment on the validity or content of either proposition, merely their relative status as scientifically valid in terms of the defined terminology.

Whether you, or I, like it or not there is a demonstrable basis for Evolution whereas there is none for Intelligent Design, the first is, therefore a "Theory", while the second is merely a "Conjecture".

Now, one conjecture is just as valid as any other since none have any basis in fact. So the problem is the claim that ID is "Just as valid as Evolution" when clearly it is not.

I notice that you did not comment on my conjecture that in, the absence of proof of any higher intelligence we have to conclude that such intelligence is actually hostile. Is this not equally valid as Intelligent Design? If not, why not.

# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:30 PM by andykr@tightlinecomputers.com
I see that my plea for abstaining from advertising Pro- Creationist web sites fell on deaf ears. I have deleted the link to a pro-creationist web site posted by Jorge Luis Vejerano who also does not get the issue here since he (I assume a 'HE') posted the comment:

El que cree en la evolución, no cree en Dios.

Which I guess means if one believes in Evolution, one does not believe in God. But as I keep saying, this is NOT my issue!!! My issue is with the attempt to use the law to give status to something which does not, of itself deserve that status.

# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:31 PM by stuartd
You might like http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html?uc_full_date=20051218

No mention of intelligent design is complete without reference to the church of FSM at http://www.venganza.org/ of course.

Regards

stuartd

# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:45 PM by andykr@tightlinecomputers.com
Hi Stuart
Thank you for the clarification - I needed that. I have spent the afternoon deleting links to pro-creationist websites despite my plea NOT to do this.

# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Thursday, December 22, 2005 3:55 AM by Brian Vander Plaats
>>Whether you, or I, like it or not there is a demonstrable basis for Evolution whereas there is none for Intelligent Design, the first is, therefore a "Theory", while the second is merely a "Conjecture". <<

This statement is not accurate. Much of this demonstratable basis has significant gaps and/or has been proven to be false. As to ID being simply a conjecture, you would be disagreeing with former hard-line evolutionists who have turned to intelligent design as a theory of origins - and not all of them believe in a Judeo/Christian God. With the new evidence ID brings up, it is hard to simply call it "conjecture". And if some of this evidence seems shaky, the same applies to much evidence for Evolution.

Sorry to hear you were bombarded by propaganda. By commenting on this topic you had to expect some lively discussion, but this sort of harassment is completely inappropriate.

Brian Vander Plaats

# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Thursday, December 22, 2005 3:05 PM by Nathan davies
Firstly I have no real problem either way. If ID is taught on a school curriculum then thats fine, if it is not then this is also fine. If a particular family wishes their children to know about issues not discussed on the curriculum then it is their responsibilty to address the balance.

Secondly I am assuming that only pro-creationsist messages have been deleted. This is an interesting point that only people of this position seem to be posting inappropriate messages.

I think I must say I would prefer education to be as balanced as possible, an issue that needs to be addressed here in the UK. And I must also say that the biggest problem here is the waste of governemtn time and money to resolve such an issue.

# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Thursday, December 22, 2005 3:57 PM by andykr@tightlinecomputers.com
Hi Nathan
I agree entirely with your first point. As I said, I have no problem with ID per se! Just with the attempts to use the law to give it a status which is equivalent to Evolution.

Secondly, it is interesting that no-one has felt the need to post anything in support of Evolutionary Theory! All the links have been to ardently pro-creationist (not even ID) sites.

Thirdly I agree and this is my whole thesis! Evolution has achieved a status based on scientific merit. ID is trying to use the law to give it an equivalent status without bothering to go through 100 years of scientific evaluation and testing.

# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Thursday, December 22, 2005 4:11 PM by Andrew
Andy, did my comment get deleted from here? If so, no problem - i can appreciate it may have been slightly over the top.

Just wondering in case there was another problem.

# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Thursday, December 22, 2005 5:02 PM by andykr@tightlinecomputers.com
Andy - not deleted by me! Unless the site management deleted it, it didn't make it through

# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Thursday, December 22, 2005 5:26 PM by Eric den Doop
I don't delete messages. Perhaps Andrew didn't enter the correct HIP?

# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:47 PM by Randy Witt
Just some thoughts:

1. Evolution is a theorem, you state. I think that an argument could be made that it does not adequately satisfy all criteria of your definition of a theorem, but since you stated you did not want to focus specifically on evolution or intelligent design, that is all I will say in that regard.

2. Both "relativity" and "evolution" are referred to as "theorems". However, I do not think that you will find such vehement defense of the "theory of relativity", nor such adamant opposition, or even ridicule, in academic or scientific circles to any questioning of it or alternatives to it. Why do teachers lose their jobs or get denied tenure, primarily for teaching intelligent design alongside evolution? I am not here suggesting to mandate such teaching - but certainly there should be room for optional teaching of it, within the realm of "academic freedom", w/o being penalized for it? Certainly, many far more questionable things are taught w/o such reaction. I think that anyone honestly examing such things as these would begin to question whether evolution is truly just a "theorem", rather than bordering on "dogma" or "ideology", which then ranks it very similar to "religion". Some of those supporting "intelligent design" or other such alternatives are rankled at the seeming stranglehold on even attempting to question this "theory" of evolution.

I really think the issues I present in #2 need to be fairly discussed, as I think they are far more glaring and widespread than whatever happened in this Pennsylvania case.

Thanks for your time & best wishes.

# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Friday, December 23, 2005 2:43 AM by stuartd
To take the post's argument a step further, Intelligent Design and Evolution aren't remotely comparable. One is an explanation for scientific evidence like the millions of years of geology and fossils and other evidence, the relationship between ontogeny and phylogeny [note I am using the alternative and less contentious R word here] and the other is a woeful attempt to preserve an element of creationism in the face of a whole universe full of evidence to the contrary. Trying to teach one as a scientific alternative to the other is absurd.

The great thing is that people can believe what they like, without the need to rewrite scientific textbooks with absurdities. The distinction between evolution as a scientific theorem and the problems it causes for biblical literalists can be simply accomplished by the very human trait of holding two contradictory statements to be true at the same time.

Regards

Stuart

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# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Friday, December 23, 2005 12:51 PM by andykr@tightlinecomputers.com
Randy Witt makes an interesting point when he states that "However, I do not think that you will find such vehement defense of the "theory of relativity", nor such adamant opposition, or even ridicule, in academic or scientific circles to any questioning of it or alternatives to it"

However I cannot recall seeing anyone attempt to use the Legal System to enforce an alternative view to Relativity and that is the point at issue here. Within the scientific community conjecture and hypotheses are not accorded equal status as Theories and no-one would attempt to give them the same status.

Interesting there is an exact parallel in this area of physics. As I am sure Randy knows only too well, there is a direct contradiction between the equations the theories of Quantum Mechanics and those of General Relativity when the two are applied below the Plank Length. Clearly BOTH cannot be correct. A third Theory, String Theory attempts to reconcile this discrepancy.

All three are taught (to some degree) in schools, the Scientific Community has no need to go to the Law, or have School Boards mandate the teaching of one, or the other, or both. These theories stand on their own merits and are taught accordingly.

As I keep saying it is NOT the merit of ID vs Evolution that I have a problem with. If ID could stand alongside Evolution on its own merit there would be no need for School Boards to FORCE it to be taught - it would be taught as a natural and proper alternative.

Here's another challenge: Name me one other thing (theory, hypothesis or conjecture) in ANY subject, which has to be forced, by fiat (if not law) , to be taught in schools?

# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Friday, December 23, 2005 12:53 PM by andykr@tightlinecomputers.com
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone

(Please feel free to substitute the greetings appropriate to your personal beliefs where necessary)

# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Friday, December 23, 2005 3:54 PM by Brian Vander Plaats
>>As I keep saying it is NOT the merit of ID vs Evolution that I have a problem with. If ID could stand alongside Evolution on its own merit there would be no need for School Boards to FORCE it to be taught - it would be taught as a natural and proper alternative. <<

I can see your point about using the legal system to force a certain teaching. While I agree with this particular teaching, does this open the door for all sorts of teachings that I do not agree with? Having a good message doesn't five you a license to use any methods you wish.

But should teachers be forced to NOT teach ID? I don't think that's fair either. Evolution asks interesting questions about scientific evidence, and so does Intelligent Design. So lets's say there is no attempt to force ID into the schools. A teacher decides to do some research into the latest ID findings, and decides there is something worthwhile to be taught. Shouldn't they be allowed to do so? Teachers do this all the time with other subjects. But when they touch anything that hints at a creator, all of the sudden they cannot teach the material.

I realize the big hole in my argument is that if we allow teachers to teach whatever they want, we let all sorts of nonsense in the door. Schools must have standards, but these standards must reflect the communities aka Taxpayers that support the schools. When a large percentage of Americans still believe in a divine creator, a school that censors material pointing to God is not being responsible to its community.

Brian Vander Plaats

# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Friday, December 23, 2005 4:54 PM by andykr@tightlinecomputers.com
Hi Brian

You said "Evolution asks interesting questions about scientific evidence, and so does Intelligent Design. So lets's say there is no attempt to force ID into the schools. A teacher decides to do some research into the latest ID findings, and decides there is something worthwhile to be taught. Shouldn't they be allowed to do so?"

AB_SO_LUTE_LY!!!!

Of course they must be allowed to! The only caveat I would require (were it up to me) is that alternatives should be presented in their proper perspective.

To introduce the concept of ID by saying (for example) "The traditional scientific community accepts the Theory of Evolution. However, there is also merit in the proposition that....." or "However, let us consider alternatives..." or "However, some thinkers believe that..." (Pick one, or devise your own)

Seems entirely proper. I totally agree with you that censorship (in almost any form) is deplorable and is not excusable.

Incidentally, (and as a side issue) what I don't understand is why ID prohibits evolution. I have no problem reconciling the two propositions by conceiving of a supreme being smart enough to create heaven and earth and then define the rules by which life should evolve...(especially since we haven't yet managed to figure out what those rules are) I guess I don't see why that is any less "perfect" than a static, once-only operation <shrug> and it certainly fits the facts as we know them...

# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Friday, December 23, 2005 5:47 PM by andykr@tightlinecomputers.com
Actually, in my last post, I suppose I should really have said that "...and it does not contradict any facts, as we know them"

# re: At Last! Common Sense Prevails

Friday, January 27, 2006 12:56 AM by Jim Denney
I live in the Ozarks on top of a big limestone hill. I can go out in the woods and pick up just about any rock and it has fossils in it. If I break it open, I will find fossils inside. I have seen two headed snakes and two headed calves, three legged frogs and six fingered people. So I know mutations are happening now and I suspect they were happening millions of years ago when those animals perished and started the process of becoming fossils that now litter my landscape.

If I see it at my own house, I have every reason to believe Darwin saw it even better, after all he studying it. And a lot of people since then have researched it and written books on it. I have read several and have to agree with the theory of evolution.

On the other hand, I have read about intelligent design and do not agree with the reasoning behind it. Simply because evolution has holes in it that haven't been explained is no reason to throw it out and come back with a faith based explanation that has no basis in fact, only in faith. The church scorned Galelao for telling them the earth was not the center of the universe. And no one fell off the edge of the world as they explored the seas.

To accept Intelligent Design is to admit that God is not perfect. That he should make a creature, then later decide he didn't get it right and try again!!! Are they saying my God is not perfect. Blasphemy...

If the schools are going to teach alternative thoughts of creationism, then they should teach them all, to include Greek, Norse and Roman mythology, beliefs of american indians. There are also different views from the more primative cultures on the continents of South America, Africa, Austrailia, Asia and even North America. And then you have the other major religions, the Muslims, Buddists, etc.

The founding fathers had it right when they said there must be seperation of church and government. I have a lot of friends and relatives who are very religious. They have similar beliefs, but the one thing the all belive in is that their specific church and those who belive as they do are the only ones going to heaven and all others are going to Hell. Oh yes, they all believe that all Catholics are going to Hell also. And some have different versions of the Bible they use. So the question is, whose version of Christianity (and the Good Book) do we use. The answer is always the same. My version.

So when the Bird Flu finally mutates and starts jumping from human to human and millions die as they did in the 1918 flu pandemic, will we say in our infinate wisdom that this is intelligent design, oh thank you Lord? Or will we blame it on evolution.

I, for one, am fed up with all of the attempts to get religion into the school. Keep it in church. If you don't like it, pull your kids out of the public schools and put them in private schools. It is not up to my government to teach my children religion. The last time I looked, they were supposed to be thaught the three R's, and religion is not one of them.

What do you think?

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